Sunday, October 16, 2011

The rationale for a unique Marine Personnel Carrier gets weaker and weaker.



I like the idea of a Marine Personnel Carrier.

I like the idea that it must be amphibious.

I like the idea that it won't necessarily be a copy of the overweight Stryker II.

But the rationale for this vehicle seems to be slipping away.  Remember.  The whole idea behind the Marine Personnel Carrier (MPC) was that the EFV would be used in the assault phase and once established on land, Marine forces would have too little armored lift to be a mobile force.  To make up for the shortfall in lift (because the EFV was so expensive and couldn't replace the AAV on a 1 for 1 basis) the MPC concept was born.

Now read these words from a Marine Corps spokesman via the Marine Times...
The MPC would fill a perceived gap, offering mobility in moderate surfs with enough armor to protect troops on the ground from most improvised explosive devices, Koch said. In an assault, AAVs or ACVs would come ashore first, with the MPC delivered by naval connecters like the Landing Craft Air Cushion to reinforce them.
The Corps plans to field about 600 of the vehicles.
But wait there's more...
Production of the MPC still could be at least a decade away, but the service is using money previously earmarked for the EFV on three other projects: the MPC; a partial renovation of the existing Amphibious Assault Vehicle fleet; and development of the Amphibious Combat Vehicle, a less-expensive next-generation amtrac.
The Commandant promised that he would drive an ACV before the end of his tenure.  If that vehicle comes in on time and under budget then what becomes of the MPC?  Will we need it?  If so then why a unique vehicle?  If its to be delivered by connectors then why not just buy Strykers?  Or if not Strykers then why develop a new vehicle?  Wouldn't this requirement easily be met by an off the shelf 8x8?  Oh and while we're at it why an 8x8 why not tracks?  Why not 6x6?

I'm solidly behind the idea of getting the Ground element a little 'new' vehicle love but this is not the way to do it.

I'm starting to sense the same issues with the EFV creeping into the Amphibious Combat Vehicle & Marine Personnel Carrier programs.

1.  No sense of urgency.
2.  Bureaucratic inefficiency.
3.  Lack of clearly defined design goals.
4.  Requirements with no roots in reality.

The list can go on but we seriously need to get these programs together.  They need to be staffed with dynamic, dedicated Marines whose sole focus is to get these vehicles across the finish line in a reasonable time period.  The fiasco which was the EFV should not be allowed to be repeated.

And speaking of the EFV.  Why didn't we just scrap the hydraulics on that bad boy (who needs tracks that can be raised if you're not doing 40 knots anymore), redesign its interior and call it a day and get it into production.

Hate to say it but the Ground Vehicle part of the Marine Corps is broken.  Development of Infantry weapons and equipment is in good hands.  Aviation is aviation.  The Ground vehicle side is in serious trouble.

We have the M1A1 that a decision is going to have to be made on.  We have the JLTV and upgraded Hummer that will need to be decided on (and we have the US Army twisting arms to keep the JLTV going)....the only real winner on the vehicle front is the MTVR.

Yep, things are kinda screwed up.

3 comments :

  1. Oh if.I could sit down and talk to you about the efv fiasco...when I was a combat instructor up at the basic school, me and the fellow trackers there would go up and spend time working with the gr staff on the efv...to see how easily the crews would be able to transfer.
    The program was so disorganized it was just disgusting. From the whole transformer problems to the stupid decision to have a chaingun upside down in the turret so the vehicle commander can sit on the rightside like in the aav. I just wish they would screen for better individuals to run these programs

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  2. believe it or not when i wrote this i was thinking about previous comments you made about that program.

    thats why i stated that we should drop the transformer tracks and redesign its interior. i never heard about the issue with the main gun before but to be honest i'm kinda partial to it being a remote system anyway.

    but have you heard anything about the ACV? for a program that was suppose to be a main focus they've been unusually quiet.

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  3. Well we brought up the tracks idea, since just ideling the efv would pass the aav, and they told us it would hit the high 20's without going flat bottom boat. So why not stop the crazy amount of high pressure hydro lines.

    For the turret, the orginal design had the gunner on the right and the vc on the left (always wanted to know why we needed both...as a aav crew has the vc bringing the gunner, but as I always said about other things on the vehicle..its a efv not a aav.) But the aav guys who were on the project with GD wanted the vc on the right because that's how it is on a aav. So to do this all the optics and systems that the vc was given had to be moved..forcing GD to rotate the chaingun exposing the feed system to water and allowing for salt water to get in the guns internals. Just one of the many things that was just so poorly thought thru. Though a remote system is nice with.something that goes in the water...a mechanical.backup and a day sight is always nice.

    As for the ACV I've heard updates...and that they have like 3 vehicles that could potential be it, we've yet to see a picture. Most of what they tell us are aav upgrades such as kevlar linning for the hull, stablized turret system..the possibility of a gun track like BAE's aav-ux30 which was a remodeled aavc7 that they mounted a crow system with a efv weapons pkg (mk44, 240.coax) with a apu to power the vehicle when halted, they Remoddeled the internal of the vehicle mounting a bft, and cameras to add to the situational awareness of the mounted troops. Also we've been briefed on a Jew bolt on armored pkg that should replace the ekk armor allowing for the whole vehicle to be protected not just the sides and top up to 20mm fire at 300 to 500 meters away a huge plus!

    Just for your info my section has 3 vehicles that were manufacture in 1983..and who knows if the 4th was a new manufacture or one of the 800 plus lvt7s that were converted. One of the longest running ground vehicles in the history of the corps

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