Friday, May 25, 2012

The missile the LCS needs.


Everyone is still going crazy over the LCS.

Its here, its not going anywhere so how do we make it effective?

Quite simply you add the Harpoon missile to its decks.

The Harpoon is combat proven, has a range of 280 kilometers and is in service now.  Suddenly your underarmed, lightly crewed warship turns into a high speed pocket destroyer that can fulfill multiple missions.

19 comments :

  1. But that doesn't fall into the "Cool new toy" category. To hell with effectiveness, we need top of the line unproven whizbang toys.

    LCS uses Roomba robots rather than mops. Now THAT is cool. How can you put such an outdated uncool weapon as the Harpoon on such a cool new ship?

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  2. i know you're saying that tongue in cheek but it really does seem like thats the type of thinking going on. instead of saying hmmm we have x, y and z that works so lets use that, it seems that those in charge want something new. i don't get it but the solution is easy.

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  3. LCS will need a) more sensors/FC to fire Harpoons (as in off-ship) and b) a place onboard for them to be launched. Not much deck area available without giving up something else? Maybe in the LCS-2 forward hold?

    LCS needs a better missile for self protection not a NEW mission they are not equipped for~

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    Replies
    1. how is an anti-ship missile not for self protection?

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    2. The only realistic place to put them is the NLOS-LS location. Not sure about space, but the four NLOS-LS containers meant for that spot would've weighed around 12,000 lbs. That's roughly the weight of a single Mk 141 4-rnd launcher (~13klbs, IIRC).

      The LCS might be able to handle 2 x Mk140 (light weight) 2-rnd launchers in that location without blowing out the weight budget for NLOS-LS (assuming it still exists).

      Certainly better than nothing, I suppose. But not going to change the anti-small craft equation significantly.

      Mk48 MOD 3 might be another option with 6 or more ESSMs. Then you might be able to justify ditching Sea SAFIRE III for a CEROS 200 or two.

      Not as much range as Harpoon but useful against air and sea targets.

      Sea Sparrow Anti-surface Mode (followed by some 76mm airburst for good measure)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcvzkmyidKA

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  4. I can see the foreheadslapping at NAVSEA going on right now. "Harpoon! Why didnt WE think of that"!

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    Replies
    1. they won't but they should. this is really a no brainer. it doesn't penetrate the decks etc..

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    2. The LCS was never meant to do surface to surface warfare, that's why all the modules are below decks with no access to fire missiles and no space to mount guns. We already know what modular weapons look like because Stanflex has been in service for years but there's nothing like that on the LCS by design. In this sense Solomon's rebranding proposal is spot on.

      LCS as a name has always been a marketing concept and nothing more: even congress isn't stupid enough to fund a 40 knot mine sweeper so they had to call it something else to get the money.

      NAVSEA isn't slapping their heads, they're going "When are people going to shut up about the LCS and let us get on with the real ships and the blue water" and "Jesus, if we actually armed the LCS people might want to buy them instead of the real ships and then where would we be?"

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  5. leesea,

    The General Dynamics International/Multi Mission version of the LCS-2 proposes to place 2 quad Harpoon launchers on the foredeck behind the space originally allocated for the NetFire missiles.

    See: http://www.gdlcs.com/gd-lcs-solution/international-variant

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  6. If it "HAS" to be new & cool, go for the NSM on the forward deck location where the international variant has the Harpoons. The NSM is rated for both AShM and Land Attack.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Strike_Missile

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  7. not sure if you saw this concept:
    http://defensetech.org/2012/01/18/boeings-new-missile-for-littoral-combat-ships/

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  8. Yeah, I saw that. I was thinking "new" and available today.

    I wonder what that Boeing missile brings to the table that the NSM does not already have? Maybe it is being designed to VL from the NETFIRES bay?

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    1. We don't have any new state of the art land/sea launched missiles. Tomahawks and Harpoons are nice but they are large, slow, and very expensive. If this Boeing concept becomes real it could fill a huge gap between very short range weapons (griffen) and our larger platforms like the harpoon.

      Also, I don't know how the LCS would survive a direct blow from anything, the thing is made out of aluminum and has minimum protection against missiles. It would be tore to shreds.

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    2. Just because "we" do not have anything new does not mean that "we" cannot buy something from someone else that is "new", like NSM.

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  9. Sol,

    your idea has a complete no-go, a tremendous mistake:

    It actually makes sense.

    Take care.

    Ferran

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  10. Spike NLOS would do a number of useful jobs in Littorals with less size and cost than a Harpoon. Its probably the closest capability match to NLOS though it doesn't have vertical launch as far as I know. It's also helicopter capable which would be a nice stand off range increase vs. the Hellfire

    Of course there is no reason it has to be Spike NLOS or Harpoon when it can be Spike NLOS and Harpoon . . .

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  11. Not sure about VL for Spike NLOS, but I am sure an adequate solution can be devised either way.

    btw, IAI also makes a podded, 50km VL strike weapon called Jumper. It's like being halfway between NLOS and Harpoon/NSM in capability..

    http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/FILES/7/39427.pdf

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    Replies
    1. The problem with Jumper is the guidance: GPS/INS and Laser homing, i.e. you can't use it BVR against a moving target. It's true you could use a Firescout to designate but NLOS it's not.

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    2. Since 50km is well beyond the horizon, you would need something like a UAV just to get the coordinates of the target. Since the UAV is there anyways, why not provide a laser to home in on.

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