This post was prompted by a discussion with Eric.
Do we need a fresh look at Special Operations?
Mission sets include... unconventional warfare, foreign internal defense, special reconnaissance, direct action, and counter-terrorism. Other duties include combat search and rescue (CSAR),counter-narcotics, counter-proliferation, hostage rescue, humanitarian assistance, humanitarian de-mining, information operations, peacekeeping, psychological operations, security assistance, and manhunts
If you look at the list above only unconventional warfare and hostage rescue are outside the current operational reach of conventional forces.
So all things considered. Do we really need a Special Operations Command that has under its command almost 100,000 people?
SOCOM when it finishes enlarging will be bigger than the Australian Army, Canadian Army, the Netherlands Army, the Singaporean Army, the S. African Army and many many others.
Does the current mission set indicate a need for anything other than the US Army Rangers and Special Forces?
Explain to me why we have all the services providing forces that duplicate each other. Tell me why we don't need a serious rethink of Special Operations and what they actually provide to the nation.
Do we need a fresh look at Special Operations?
Mission sets include... unconventional warfare, foreign internal defense, special reconnaissance, direct action, and counter-terrorism. Other duties include combat search and rescue (CSAR),counter-narcotics, counter-proliferation, hostage rescue, humanitarian assistance, humanitarian de-mining, information operations, peacekeeping, psychological operations, security assistance, and manhunts
If you look at the list above only unconventional warfare and hostage rescue are outside the current operational reach of conventional forces.
So all things considered. Do we really need a Special Operations Command that has under its command almost 100,000 people?
SOCOM when it finishes enlarging will be bigger than the Australian Army, Canadian Army, the Netherlands Army, the Singaporean Army, the S. African Army and many many others.
Does the current mission set indicate a need for anything other than the US Army Rangers and Special Forces?
Explain to me why we have all the services providing forces that duplicate each other. Tell me why we don't need a serious rethink of Special Operations and what they actually provide to the nation.
I think SOCOM is just a symptom of a larger failure of the armed forces to let go of the past. I think the conventional forces are still clinging to 20th Century mindsets of warfighting. I think the Marines are a great example. I don't think they needed their own SOF. But I think it was inevitable because the Marines are pretty rigidly geared towards operations from the sea, the MAGTF, all that. My point, SOCOM is an expediency, a band-aid, a quick fix.
ReplyDeleteMARSOC was forced upon the Marine Corps by Rumsfeld. since then its taken on a life of its own.
ReplyDeleteLong time reader, first time writer. No expert in the matter but it seems to me to be a contradiction in terms to have a SOCOM that is larger than most conventional armies. During Cold War, Soviet Spentaz were about 30.000? For a country the size and power of USA, I could understand a force of that size, 100.000 troops sounds to me like to many people trying to find justification for their jobs....You can't have that much quantity (army size) and still hope to have outstanding quality (SF/Rangers/SEALS). I just don't believe it.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Russia/Spetznaz.htm
What does the USA need? Some teams to do hostage situation, some doing insertions(air/sea),CSAR and some quantity guys to do training and special work like in Afghanistan. You figure some special airlift and helicopters. I don't think that requires a 100,000 SOCOM,IMO.
you're spot on but SOCOM isn't about elites anymore. i truly believe its become a sort of club. i can't wrap my brain around it but its gotten too big, its tail (i mean headquarters) too cumbersome and i think its lost its flavor.
Deletei label this another Rumsfeld failure that won't be realized until we hit a target and our guys get smoked. i mean seriously ... want to know the difference between a SOCOM raid and a conventional raid? firepower. SOCOM is much more aggressive in its use of it than any conventional force ever could be . both units are kinetic, its just that SOCOM is even more so. conventional forces could duplicate it but the thumbs are heavier on the scale for conventtional forces than they are for SOCOM.
i would like to see SOCOM shrunk to SF, Rangers, 160th. PJ's would go back to conventional air force (everyone has Special Ops Medics/Corpsmen)..along with combat controllers and weathermen (everyone has pathfinder qualified members). MARSOC would be disbanded and sent back and SEALs would be shrunk back to 6 Teams.
PJ's and CSAR assets in general were transferred out of AFSOC a few years back and are now part of ACC (Air Combat Control). Part of the bloat in SOCOM -at least from the Air Force side- seems to come from the fact that everyone in an AFSOC wing from operators to pilots and aircrew to maintainers to support to medical all count towards the overall AFSOC head count. Not sure how the Army and Navy/Marines count their numbers, but out of that 100,000 number, how many are actually in the operations side of the house vs support? And yeah, there is certainly a lot of room for weeding out duplicitous efforts across SOCOM.
Deletetons of duplication but you're right. most of the bloat is the headquarters staff. if you take a serious look at SOCOM then the days of them being lean and mean have long since passed. the organization that the Marine Corps is putting in place in SOCOM is a fucking abortion. i'm surprised to hear that PJ's and CSAR are out of SOCOM. if that's the case then i've been led astray. the vehicle that they're getting i thought was for the SOCOM mission set. but long story short ... the number of shooters vs. support in SOCOM is waaaay out of whack. its much worse than a conventional unit now.
DeleteSome individual PJ's are assigned to AFSOC units to compliment the Special Tactics Squadrons, but CSAR as a whole resides with the fighter and bomber types in ACC.
DeleteSo what in your opinion is so abortive about what MarSoc is putting together?
Deletewhats abortive? Explain to me how the Marine Corps is capable of setting up a Regiment Plus of special operations ALONG with all of the support structure while reducing probably to 150,000 boat spaces?
DeleteMARSOC is the beast that will suck the Marine Corps dry and in the end it will kill the Marine Corps in order to perpetuate itself. how big is Marsoc now? around 3,000? how big will it grow? around 5K? yeah that works.
NOT!
Everyone here hates on MARSOC, which surprises me (perhaps it shouldn't??), I figured I'd be outcasted for finding them to be wanabe SEALs. Here's my take:
ReplyDeleteI think MARSOC should instead become what Ranger school is essentially to the Army. A school you send exceptional Marines to that really fine-tunes their craft. While I don't really think the Marines need their own equivalent of the 75th, having MARSOC-qualified men scattered through the units would be a huge morale booster and, I would hope, an effectiveness booster at the same time.
i'll do you one better. get the Marines to start sending more Marines to Ranger School and start having the army open up more slots to Marines.
Deletewhy reinvent the wheel? Ranger school is respected and having Ranger qualified Marines throughout the Battalion would be a great thing. hell start with officers and Staff NCO's...oh and don't hit me with the "we're not all jump qualified" excuse because they make allowances for individuals that aren't jump qualified.
Sorry my posts are 2&3 days late.
ReplyDeleteBut no I don't find a problem with 3.6-5k Marines in MarSoc. How is that more abortive then AFSOC expanding buy more than 10,000 airmen in the last 10 years or ARSOC expanding by almost 20,000 in that same time.
MarSoc is a new organization, Marine special operations are not. Read shadowspear.com 's article about Joint Special Operations Task Force Trans-Sahara, the commander Marine Col. George Bristol, spent 37 years in & out of Special Operations assignments.
The USMC is not dropping to 150,000, they're slated for 182k but even worst case it won't go below 170k its mandated by the National Security Act to maintain 4 Marine Divisions, 4 Air Wings, & the necessary support & at 170k it maintained 8 Marine Reg HQ's of 24 Inf BNs, 1 AT Brigade, 2 BN-sized FAST Co's.
The Corps can still meet its obligations with 21 Inf BNs & 7 Reg HQ's freeing up 5,000+ Marines for MarSoc. 4th MEB-AT formed MarSoc's backbone & HQ which freed more room.