Friday, July 05, 2013

The wrong force for a future Asian conflict.


Thanks for the article Jonathan.

via Janes.
Asian powers are outpacing the United States to become the biggest spenders on defense by 2021 and are fuelling an “explosion” in the global arms trade, a study showed.
The global arms trade jumped by 30 percent to $73.5 billion between 2008-2012 in spite of the economic downturn, driven by surging exports from China and demand from countries like India, and is set to more than double by 2020, defense and security consultancy IHS Jane’s said and was reported by Reuters.
“Budgets are shifting East and global arms trade is increasing competition. This is the biggest explosion in trade the world has ever seen,” said Paul Burton, a senior manager at IHS Jane’s whose study looked at 34,000 defense acquisition programmes.
The United States has accounted for the lion’s share of global defense spending over the past decade, but budget cuts in Washington, as it withdraws from countries such as Afghanistan, mean that it will account for just 30 percent by 2021 to fall behind Asia at 31 percent.
Military spending in the Asia Pacific region – which includes China, India and Indonesia – will rise 35 percent to $501 billion in the next eight years, compared to a 28 percent fall in U.S. spending to $472 billion over the same period, IHS Jane’s said.
“The big Western defense companies have no option – export or shrink – but this could be sowing the seed of their own demise; the opportunities in the East are a double-edged sword, fuelling a trend which threatens U.S. dominance of defence.” said Guy Anderson, senior principal analyst at IHS Jane’s.
China’s ramp-up in defense spending in recent years is worrying its neighbors such as Japan, with whom it is currently embroiled in a stand-off over a series of uninhabited islands, despite its repeated reassurances that there is nothing to fear.
Japan, as well as India and South Korea, are among countries being courted by weapon makers such as Lockheed Martin, Boeing and BAE Systems who want to sell them fighter jets and other equipment to make up for reduced spending in their Western home markets, but such deals tend to require investment in the buyers’s defense industries.

Israeli sources told I-HLS that many of the future deals in Asia will include systems that aer either made for homeland security or that are defined “dual Use.”
Asia is appearing to be on the edge of a high tech conventional forces playground.

Almost every single country in the region is either in possession of or is in the process of acquiring modern, state of the art armored vehicles, fighters and naval vessels.  Included in that shopping list are UAVs and other high tech surveillance systems/equipment.

Simply put.

We're going to be fighting mirror images of ourselves with slight variations on the theme.  Congratulations partnership missions.  You succeeded.  Everyone lusted after our capabilities and now the entire region is about to have them.

The biggest issue facing the Pentagon?

We're building the wrong force to win in this new, emerging, high tech battlefield and with the wrong strategy.

*  How will the LCS fare in a high tech sea fight?
*  How will the short legged F-22 do against SU-30/35 and J-20 launching from extreme long range under direction of an integrated anti-air network?
*  Is Air Sea Battle valid with the force of the next 10 to 20 years?
*  Is over the horizon assault valid under these conditions or will it have to wait until defense are rolled back?
*  Is the Sea Base survivable against a technologically capable foe utilizing undersea robotic attack vehicles, multi-spectrum air attack, hypersonic anti-ship missiles and Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles (why go after a carrier when you can cripple an assault assembling off shore?)
*  Do Stryker Brigades have a role against mechanized forces of equal capabilities?
*  Will Heavy Brigade Combat Teams even be able to function in restricted Asian cities, light load only (by Western standards) bridges and numerous waterways?

Our future force is sizing up to be the wrong force.  Want an even more troubling issue?  The Middle Eastern countries are rapidly arming up too.  The same issues apply.  Not only are they buying comparable equipment but in many cases its our stuff.  Once China cracks the code and starts selling high tech variations of our gear (without modifications or backdoors so that they can't be fully utilized) we'll face the same issues in the Middle East.

We're soon to suffer the hangover from a period of the worst Generalship in our nations history...both on the battlefield and in setting the table for future forces.

27 comments :

  1. I'd like to be pedantic for a second.

    We don't have hypersonic anti-ship missiles yet. Supersonic we can most definitely do though.

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  2. While I don't want to totally disagree with your analysis Sol, I think that you ought to take into account that an awful lot of that additional Asian defense spending is being carried out by America's allies (Japan and the ROK) or by nations with whom America is unlikely to have a major conflict, like India. I'd also be interested in knowing what sort of forces you think the USA should deploy in the Asia/Pacific region, since you seem to think the current ones are unsuitable.

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    1. true enough Jonathan but let me add that China is the 800 pound gureilla in the room and we have two very big problems with properly analyzing their defense spending. the first is that because of how their economy is run, we can't do a straight apples to apples comparison of defense spending. while we might note (and they might admit) a 10% increase in actuality it might be more like a 25% increase in western terms. i say that because China has the best of both worlds currently. a low wage base AND an extremely high tech force. i dn't think we've seen that before. the second is that this is all lining up to fight the Spratly islands conflict. a major naval engagement is coming. you can bet on it. as far as the type of force i'd like to see. that's coming tomorrow.

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  3. 1-The LCS...a destroyer sized ship armed like a CG cutter...meanwhile Russia builds corvettes armed like cruisers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gremyashchy-class_corvette
    2-The F-22 and the F-15E are the best fighters for this scenario...Good range(the raptor can carry 4 external fuel tanks)and good weapons load...but the USAF leadership roal their eyes whenever you talk about the FB-22 or the F-15 Silent Eagle...AND WHERE IS THE B-1R AND THE EB-52?
    3-No...
    4-Depends on your assets in the region by that time...but without true long range fighters and proper ASW assets no...
    5-Stryker brigades are useless in the PacRim...not amphibious and cant be there in time for a suddem crisis...also(like Australia found out in east Timor with the lighter LAV-25)they cant use much of the roads in that scenario

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    1. 1-LCS certainly seems to be a stinker, I'd be curious to hear even a vague comparison from a sailor who served on it between it and other Navy ships
      2- Weapons procurement across the board is screwed up, they need to develop things evolutionary rather than trying to make everything a revolution. My idea would be to make new-build F-15 and cram as much new systems as we can into the proven airframe for the near term and reevaluate and simplify or replace the F-35 towards getting a fighter that can be built in great numbers. All the flashy Star Trek gadgets don't mean shit if you can only afford to build 10 of the damn things. B-1R seems like a good idea and B-52 will always be useful. Also build more A-10s(preferably for the Army but I won't hold my breath on that)
      3-dunno, seems like a fresh look is needed
      4- Seems like you need the door long kicked in before these can be safe
      5- Nope, The time assets spend bringing in a whole motorized infantry unit would be better spent brining in ammo and supplies to support the Airborne or Marines holding the Air/BeachHead and some small leading part of the first heavy unit earlier. Motorized is great for occupation or fighting Low Intensity type enemies but against an Army you need to bring the heavy stuff
      6- Heavy can do anything, maybe add some more Infantry into the brigade, may need to train/gear up the Engineers to regional challenges. I was just a grunt I don't know what their training and skills are in that area but I've been impressed watching them breach obstacles build pontoon bridges.

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    2. We have already been following the “Evolutionary rather than Revolutionary” path for the last 30 years. Look how many upgrades the F-15/16/18’s have gone through.

      At some point you have to take the next step, especially since there are already three other 5th gen fighters that have already gotten to the prototype stage (PAKFA, J-20, J-31) and several more gearing up for development. If we had stuck with your idea of evolving 4th gen platforms, we would now be trying to play catch-up instead of leading the push for a more advanced fighter force.

      That being said, yes LM & the JPO have screwed up a big portion of the schedule and cost of the F-35.

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    3. Problem is that the F-35 is limited for the PacRim...the Raptor is much more performing and as external fuel tanks...its a long time until the JSF will get is...the F-15Se as much better payload and range than the JSF(not to mention that any Eagle easily outperforms the F-35...)
      And you are wrong in one area:upgrades are not evolutions of a design...they are upgrades...there are upgrades to the Flanker(Su-27SM) and there are evolutions of the Flanker:Su-33,Su-34,Su-35...
      All evolutions of American designs where never adopted with the exeption of the SuperHornet...a costly mistake

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    4. I suppose you have a point, it just seems, that at least for the near term they could get some more mileage out of the designs, though at this point the age of some of the airframes is becoming an issue. Its just hard seeing all the procurement dollars getting sucked into those programs while they are still cutting back on units and equipment and branches that have ongoing real world missions to perform.

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    5. Oh and i forgot...you dont need the JSF if you had enough F-22s...

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    6. The F-22 cannot carry any 2k class internal weapons and it does not have an IRST, LGBs, AShMs, etc.

      It is also restricted to well prepared land bases, which for the Pacific are few and far between.

      Then there is the whole issue of no longer being in production, being twice as expensive as a F-35 (FRP pricing), etc.

      btw, The F-15A/C --> F-15E was an evolution of sorts as there were extensive internal changes that took place along with the standard use of fastpacs.

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    7. It was an F-15 B(back them it was called TF-15A)...the Su-34 is not a 2 seat Su-27...
      That WAS ONE OF THE REASONS why it was chosen insted of the F-16 XL(a true evolution in a design) was the fact it was an off the shelf design.Few mods to the nose and some internal ones.Structure is much more resistan than the regular Eagle...(biggest change besides the avionics)...

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  4. Ever read about the FB-22?
    And why should the F-22 carry 2k internal weapons?It just needs SDBs to take out bigger SAM systems...all else is killed by 4th gen...
    And can the F-35 carry Mavericks,Harms,GBU-28s like the leggacy platforms it replaces?
    The STOVL concept is the reason i liked the F-35...until i found out that unlike the Harrier it cannot pull 12 sorties a day,land of take off from florests,container ships or eaven from regular aircraft carriers(they have to be mod.to deal with the heat from the exaust...)...
    The F-22 was suposed to have HMD and IRST but they got cancelled...where do you think the idea of the DAS sistem come from?And the Darth Vader helmet?If it works...will the pilot have 3-D picture like if he was looking out the window...or will he see a 2-D image delayed?

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    1. The FB-22 would have taken billions to develop and still would be tied to prepared airstrips.

      The F-22’s lack of a 2k capacity means that it’s A2G capabilities are limited. No bunker busters, no extended range JDAM kits, no JSOW, no AShM, etc.

      JAGM /SDB/SPEAR3/NGM are replacing Maverick & HARM and they are developing a boosted 2k class bunker buster bomb. They are all internal to the F-35. Just as the plane evolves, so do the weapons.

      Btw, The F-35 can operate from anywhere that a Harrier can, notwithstanding weight restrictions.

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    2. JAGM is almost canceled and does not have the punch/range of the maverick...the next gen missile is also canceled...and how will the JSF use the JAGM if it is just an Army program? will the army have the F-35...you sure know more than i do...
      And for the F-22«Research has been conducted to develop a stealth ordnance pod and pylon. Such a pod would have had a low observable shape and have carried weapons internally, then would have opened when launching a missile or dropping a bomb. This allows a stealth aircraft to carry more ordnance than in the internal bays alone, while maintaining the craft's stealth characteristics. The pod and pylon design allows it to be detached when no longer needed.[5]»...APA as a good article in the wind tunnel testing of these in a F-22 Shape...
      And no...i dare you to prove to me that and F-35B can do 12 sorties a day from a florest or from a container ship...come on i dare you

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    3. JAGM is still being funded thru FY14 and is a joint ARMY/NAVY program (yes, all F-35s will be qualified, not just the B/C). btw, you are completely missing the point of weapon evolution. The Maverick was one of the first PGMs and was as big as it is due to seeker inaccuracies. Its functionality has already been replaced by smaller missiles like the Hellfire & Brimstone (which are the same size as the JAGM). We saw the same reduction in warhead size with the evolution in bomb guidance. In the Vietnam era, dozens of bombs would be dropped to hit just one target. Now with LGB & JDAM, just one is needed. They are also reducing the size of PGMs needed. The Harrier regularly only carries the 500lb Paveway and the SDB is now the new PGM of choice.

      Any stealth pod for the F-22 will reduce it’s performance (range, VLO, g’s, etc) and you would end up with a fighter that is 2+ times as expensive as the F-35, unable to operate from anything besides a prepared airstrip, worse performance (range, turning etc) than a F-35, etc without any benefits.

      There is nothing inherent in the F-35s design that limits its daily sorties. In fact, its higher speed (gets to and from the battle quicker) and advanced PHMs will increase its sortie rate vs the Harrier.

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    4. JAGM is still being funded thru FY14 and is a joint ARMY/NAVY program (yes, all F-35s will be qualified, not just the B/C). btw, you are completely missing the point of weapon evolution. The Maverick was one of the first PGMs and was as big as it is due to seeker inaccuracies. Its functionality has already been replaced by smaller missiles like the Hellfire & Brimstone (which are the same size as the JAGM). We saw the same reduction in warhead size with the evolution in bomb guidance. In the Vietnam era, dozens of bombs would be dropped to hit just one target. Now with LGB & JDAM, just one is needed. They are also reducing the size of PGMs needed. The Harrier regularly only carries the 500lb Paveway and the SDB is now the new PGM of choice.

      Any stealth pod for the F-22 will reduce it’s performance (range, VLO, g’s, etc) and you would end up with a fighter that is 2+ times as expensive as the F-35, unable to operate from anything besides a prepared airstrip, worse performance (range, turning etc) than a F-35, etc without any benefits.

      There is nothing inherent in the F-35s design that limits its daily sorties. In fact, its higher speed (gets to and from the battle quicker) and advanced PHMs will increase its sortie rate vs the Harrier.

      Here is the latest Budget for JAGM, through 2018 and LRIP.

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    1. Thats just wrong . from DID «http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/joint-common-missile-program-fired-but-not-forgotten-0229/»
      Just army ...and it will be canceled...but let people read the article...
      your argument does not say anything about the fact that the Maverick has a bigger warhead and will be used by everybody exept the Army...does the Army use Mavericks?
      Stealth pod would reduce the F-22 performance to F-35 levels? If so you still have the choice between F-35 specs plus 4 AMRAAMs 2 Sidewinders and 8 SDBs or 2 2000K bombs...or 4 AMRAAMs 2 Sidewinders and supercruise and superagility...that pod in a F/A-18 reduces its top speed from Mach 1.8 to 1.6...so maybe the raptor could still out perform the JSF in that mode...
      What about GBU-28? and the Harm missile...a new version just entered service against new treats...just forget about it and develop boutique weapons to your boutique aircraft...
      AND please...pretty please...12 sorties a day from forests or container ships...ahhh...i am a nice guy...12 sorties a day from an air force base or a converted ship to carry it...JUST GIVE ME A LINK TO THAT...I DARE YOU...
      Good luck...the best i read about is 4 sorties a day...4x less
      Oh and by the way ...12 a day has the best that the RAF could do in the could war with perfect logistics and with pilot(one pilot per plane) fatige...
      Lots of articles state that if the airbase is not perfect the plane will be damaged...if you nedd to set an airfield(as small as it may be)WHATS THE POINT IN A PLANE THAT IS STOVL?As for the small ships (like AMERICA class)if fitted with a ski jump they can lauch legagy Hornets and SuperHornets...most people that dont read on aviation dont know that the Hornet/SuperHornet family is cleared for Ski-jump....

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    2. Do you read the articles or just the headlines and look at the pictures?

      Let’s take this in three parts:

      1. Being a joint program – In the FY2014 budget, there are both ARMY and USN line items that stretch form SDD through production plans that begin with Long Lead items in 2016.

      US Army FY2014 and US USN FY2014 Budget Doc

      2. Going to be cancelled – Since that is your opinion, it cannot be proven, one way or another. Your own link at DiD shows that it is budgeted, by two separate services (See #1 above) through 2018.

      3. 12 Sorties a day – So far the F-35 is projected to exceed it’s KPP sortie rate of 4 (per this Labelled KPP Chart) with a projected rate of 6.5. Remember that this is a full mission profile of 900nm round trip. Base the F-35’s closer to combat and the can surge just like the Harriers have shown in combat. Again, there is nothing about the F-35 that will reduce it’s sortie rate vs the Harrier and several things that will increase it (speed, PHMs, etc).

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    3. 1-« United States: The JAGM was intended for joint service with the U.S. Army, U.S. Navy and the U.S. Marine Corps, by providing a single missile configuration for many platforms. JAGM offered the services increased operational flexibility and reduced logistics support costs.[2] However, in February 2012, the Navy and Marine Corps terminated their investment in the program, saying it was a "manageable risk" to do so. They will instead focus on the GBU-53/B SDB II and continued Hellfire procurement. This makes the JAGM an Army-only program.[5]»from wikipedia with direct link to the article...
      2-«May 3/13: Brimstone for Reapers? With JAGM fielding still some way off, if ever, the USAF’s 645th Aeronautical Systems Group rapid acquisition office is reportedly interested in adding MBDA’s longer-range, dual laser/ MW radar guided Brimstone missile to the MQ-9′s arsenal. It’s real attraction is a ‘man in the loop’ feature that lets the firing aircraft abort an attack after launch, or correct a missile that locks on the wrong target. In Libya, those characteristics reportedly made it one of the few weapons NATO commanders could use to hit enemy armored vehicles in urban areas.

      Brimstone already serves on RAF Tornado GR4 strike jets, and was an option for Britain’s Harrier GR9s before the entire fleet was sold to the US Marines. With Britain’s MQ-9s deployed, they’ve reportedly asked for tests using USAF MQ-9s, and also hope to interest American armed services in the weapon. Defense News | Defense Update.» it looks like its on the ropes...
      3-Show me a picture like this of the F-35:«http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_f_TiAqdkqU4/TUdhLGUfH7I/AAAAAAAABiY/CpINedq1h8U/s1600/Harriers+And+Sea+Harriers+On+Atlantic+Conveyor+Ascension+Island.jpg» or this«http://www.oliversart.co.uk/acatalog/gr3_field_trip.htm»
      And where are my 12 sorties a day?

      2-

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    4. Again with not reading the actual budget docs?

      The FY2014 docs I linked to show the USN paying $5.5 mil and the Army paying $10 mil into the program while they wait for Milestone B certification.

      While the USN might have wanted out of the program in 2012, it was purely a budgetary decision that they reversed.

      Please stop using WIKI to try and win arguments, you never will.

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  6. http://theaviationist.com/2013/07/04/uclass-requirements-leaked/#.UdeJkm0kSjI

    If this is what the USN requires, then I really hope they know something we don't or have some secret black program hidden away because this UCLASS sure doesn't come across as optimized to fight in the Pacific against a first rate country like China....

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    1. Well the aviationist is reporting numbers that conflict with every other number reported including their source article referenced.

      The correct numbers are:
      2000 nM un-refueled strike radius
      2x 600 nM orbits with full load (~3000-4 nM)
      1x 1200 nM orbit with full load (~3000-4 nm)

      Seems like the requirements are reasonable for a fight in the pacific.

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    2. the aviationist is being an idiot then. the FB-111 was able to achieve that type of mission profile and it is MUCH larger. to think that an unmanned airplane even flying at almost idle speed would be able to pull that off is to expect minimum or less ISR package/bomb load.

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    3. yes, if the uclass can do a 2000 nM combat radius mission given their relative size, that alone would be a major accomplishment. UAVs do get some advantage for trading off human cargo space for more fuel/stores but they are also generally smaller and smaller frames are much more difficult to design for long ranges at reasonable speeds.

      In perspective the UCLASS un-refueled range requirements are on the order of 3-4x the range capabilities for the F/A-18 and F-35 in smaller overall packages. Granted, they have about 1/6th the max payload, but impressive non the less. Part of the advantage is also from not designing for ultra-high transonic and supersonic speeds. This will allow them to leverage commercial aviation technology engines with much better SFC than the transonic and supersonic engines used in the F/A-18 and F-35.

      As far as cost, it is unlikely that we will end up buying UCLASS designs in anything close to F/A-18 or F-35 numbers which will increase the R&D cost per frame.

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  7. The X-47B uses an F100 engine (F-15/F-16) and weighs more than a loaded F-16 but almost 5,000lbs less empty than an empty F-16. Essentially it seems to take 30,000lbs or so of fuel, sensors, and for strike missions a very limited weight in munitions. The X-45C is powered by an F404. Maybe a commercial engine would be better but it's not what's being utilized.

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