Wednesday, July 30, 2014

If this is true then the President of the US is no friend of Israel.

via Algeminer.com
The full transcript is below, translated from Hebrew, courtesy of The Times of Israel:

Barack Obama: I demand that Israel agrees to an immediate, unilateral ceasefire and halt all offensive activities, in particular airstrikes.
Benjamin Netanyahu: And what will Israel receive in exchange for a ceasefire?
BO: I believe that Hamas will cease its rocket fire — silence will be met with silence.
BN: Hamas broke all five previous ceasefires. It’s a terrorist organization dedicated to the destruction of Israel.
BO: I repeat and expect Israel to stop all its military activities unilaterally. The pictures of destruction in Gaza distance the world from Israel’s position.
BN: Kerry’s proposal was completely unrealistic and gives Hamas military and diplomatic advantages.
BO: Within a week of the end of Israel’s military activities, Qatar and Turkey will begin negotiations with Hamas based on the 2012 understandings, including Israel’s commitment to removing the siege restrictions on Gaza.
BN: Qatar and Turkey are the biggest supporters of Hamas. It’s impossible to rely on them to be fair mediators.
BO: I trust Qatar and Turkey. Israel is not in the position that it can choose its mediators.
BN: I protest because Hamas can continue to launch rockets and use tunnels for terror attacks –
BO: (interrupting Netanyahu) The ball’s in Israel’s court, and it must end all its military activities.
Just plain wow.

"Israel is not in a position to choose its mediators"??????

Just fucking wow. 

27 comments :

  1. Solomon, how much do you believe this is real?
    Because, if this is real... Israel is fucked.

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    1. i had hoped that he was a fair player in all this but if this is true then you're right. Israel is fucked...but so is the Democrat party. if this is proven as true then they lost a bunch of donors.

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    2. The Jewish American voter will vote democrat even if the Nation of Israel goes down in flames.
      There is a video in Iraq of men being herded to a shallow mass grave and shot, of men led to a dock and shot then dumped into the river from a cement platform covered in blood.
      The Jewish American needs to know this is the fate that is planned for the Israeli's and the democrat party is not their friends nor the friends of the American Jew, they just want their money and votes.
      It's like Kenny Rogers is a pain in the ast to play cards with, everybody knows this.

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  2. No mention of a neutral party to mediate this? Not even Egypt?

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  3. The US govt is denying it is true. The Israeli reporter who first gave it to the press swears it is genuine. Who knows?

    But here's what we do know: POTUS snubbed Israel quite seriously at the very beginning of his presidency. He is already known not to get along with the Israeli PM. Kerry was publicly called a bumbling amateur by Israeli politicians and commentators from the Right and Left (!). Former SoS, Mrs. Clinton, practically justified Hamas using civilian institutions for warfare by explaining that Gaza is very densely populated and so Hamas really doesn't have where to put stuff. Israel agreed to (and tried already) work through Egyptian mediation, but the US just sealed a big Apache deal with Qatar (Hamas' benefactor).

    With all that context, is that conversation plausible? You bet it is. Did it happen? Dunno. It's kinda hard to believe.

    BTW Sol, reflecting back to your surprise at Israel revealing that Maglan is operating in Aza, the IDF announced that 3 Maglan soldiers were KIA. They were working on carefully destroying a tunnel which opened under a medical clinic. The building was IEDed by Hamas on top of them.

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  4. We should remember that Hamas is not happy with Egypt. Egypt maintains a blockade on Aza from their direction, for their own reasons. So even though Israel is willing to work with Egyptian mediation, it isn't simple at all.

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  5. Well, both sides have categorically denied that the supposed transcript bears any resemblance to their actual conversation and both have condemned the reporting of such slanderous and false information.

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    1. show me a link. i haven't seen that.

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    2. Here you go:

      http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/leaked-transcript-fake-Netanyahu/2014/07/29/id/585648/

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    3. I'm not entirely convinced. The only Israeli rebuttal was in a Tweet. Identical to the one sent by the WH, at that. That sounds coordinated. Israel doesn't want to overly shame the WH in a time of crisis. What's more, it fits the context of POTUS-Israeli PM relations as already noted. And Israeli ambassador Dermer even defended SoS Kerry, after Kerry was roundly remonstrated in Israel. The Israeli govt doesn't want to alienate the US, even if there is disagreement between them.

      The transcript has been translated and retranslated. So, while the exact wording is almost certainly off, I can believe the substance is correct.

      http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/07/29/Is-the-Obama-Netanyahu-Transcript-Fake

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    4. The phrase, "Words to that effect" comes to mind.
      Sounds like what the POTUS would say or Kerry.

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  6. "Israel is not in a position to choose its mediators"??????

    Thats a statement that needs atleast 2 minutes of calm and rational thinking.

    Are they really in a position to choose their mediators ?
    If yes, then which country/countries ? (Apart from the USA)

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    1. Turkey ?
      Germany ?
      France ?
      Canada ?
      UAE ?
      Russia ?
      Pakistan ????
      Egypt ?
      UK ?
      Jordan ?

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    2. what really needs to be asked is if they're not in a position to choose then how can they expect to survive as a nation? many want to see them destroyed. are you suppose to negotiate with someone that wants to kill you? if Obama's plan is followed then Israel dies, its just that simple. only an idiot would let sworn enemies determine their fate.

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    3. Several of the countries you've listed are obvious non-starters. But if the conversation didn't happen, it's all a moot point.

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    4. Solomon, off course you are supposed to negotiate with people who want to kill you.

      Negotiating with people who want to kill you isnt the exception, its the norm. US-Taliban negotiations, Good Taliban Vs. Bad Taliban etc.

      Your Govt. itself acknowledges Pakistan....its private civilians and its state inistitutions as sponcerers of Terrorism.....terrorism aimed at your forces in Afghanistan, yet you "Negotiate" with them. Last time I checked, you were "Negotiating" Oliver Hazard Perry class Ships with them.

      Even India from time to time "Negotiates" with its enemies as does every country in the whole wide world.

      Even Iran was "Negotiated" with during the Iran-Iraq war. And that "Negotiation" came after..........let me repeate After Irans Declaration that they want to destroy Israel. A declaration that Iran still maintains to this day................yet the International community and even USA "Negotiates" with them on various issues including the Nuclear Issue.

      Solomon, Negotiaion is borne our of need. Out of Necessity. I am not saying USA was wrong to "Negotiate" with such countries because even India has such Skeletons in its closet.........but......in the end Negotiations always happen when one or both parties "Feel the Need".

      Again, before I get called and Anti-Jewish Bigot, I am not Anti-Israel nor am an Anti-Palestine. I am just another guy with "No Horse in this race", but find it terribly interesting to find 2 Major Religions tear each other apart for a ridiculously small amout of land.

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    5. Gentlemen, Gentlemen, please take five. Singh is quiet right: you have to negotiate with your enemies.
      Except.... Has anybody read the Hamas Charter?It can be read easily on the Internet, if you can stop the vomit coming up your throat. I must admit I have not, but I read excerpts and what it generally contains. Aside for glorifying death for the cause to become a Shahid, it advocates a Caliphate for the whole Middle East without countries, under one ruler, the Caliph and all people will adopt their version of Islam under pain of death. No other religions allowed. See what they did in 2007 when they took over the Gaza Strip by military coup, and it taught ISIS how to do it later in Iraq and Syria.
      This is an organisation you absolutely CAN NOT negotiate with. Their value systems and human logic are based on something from the Middle Ages and reinforced by doing the work of Allah. The ruins and the casualties in the civilian population have no effect on them; they welcome it as it serves their purpose.
      The only way this threat to Israel and to Egypt (yes, Egypt) and the rest of the Middle East and further out, wlill be stopped is by destroying Hamas and outlawing it like El-Sissi in Egypt.
      Unfortunately, the current Israeli Government does not have the stomach for it or the political will or the full backing of the Israeli Society (which is fragmented over almost all issues).
      Mark my words, if they do achieve a ceasefire, the whole shebang will start again in a year/two/five....

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    6. I just wanted to add that in Islam you can negotiate with your enemies, and there are different variations of the agreement : Taadiya, or Hudna in Arabic are allowed by the Prophet Mohammed and he instructs to also plan the next attack during ceasefire and catch the enemy by surprise, Not a ceasefire intended to negotiate peace or to end the conflict. The West and the Buddhist philosophy are so naive compared to the evil in Islam. Haven't a chance! See what is happening in Europe, where in some towns Muslims are the largest Majority. England will have (already has?) Sharia. The Russian Army will have over 50% of its recruits Moslem by 2050 (already almost 20%). The world is changing - better buy prayer mats and Korans for your grandchildren......:-)

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    7. I do agree that in its current state, the shebang will start again sooner or later.

      By the way, England does not have Sharia Law. Neither does India. Nor Australia or Canada or anywhere else where you dream that Muslims might demographically conquer.

      The chances of them killing each other rather than presenting a United Front to the world is very high. Its almost a recap of those Protestant Vs Catholic dark/middle age wars. It happens to every religion which becomes very large, branch out and hence different branches loose touch of the original message. Its happened to Hindusim, Skihism, Buddhism etc. over a long period of time. So take that money earmarked for Prayer Mats and Koran and buy something else.

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    8. From what I gather Israel is always open to treat. It is the Palestinian organisations who constantly renege on deals and won't treat.

      What we have to ask is why Israel stopped Palestinians going into their country? A decade or so ago lots of Palestinians worked in Israel; Israeli business bought produce from Gaza. What change? Did Israel change; a secular country where Arabic is an official language and everybody gets a vote? No. What changed was the leadership of Palestinian people. Or should that actually be those who control them?

      Saying Israel doesn't want to talk or negotiate is just swallowing the anti-Israel propaganda.

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  7. http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/30/stephen-harper-blames-hamas-for-palestinian-casualties-after-israeli-shells-hit-un-shelter-in-gaza/

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  8. I think all the Israeli people and the civil society (Such a thing exists in that country?) should ask this question to their policy makers, ''is this war sustainable?''. There are many fellows from Israel on this blog, i wonder their opinion on the on going war and their vision for their state. What will happen when Israel is not as important as now for the western allies? e.g. 50 years later. US will not back Israel for forever, European powers(???) are at the edge of a crisis and EU economy trying to stand on the shivering legs of Deutschland. What will happen when we are less dependent on puppet arabic dynasties and their priceless oil reserves?

    I am Turkish and i dont have any sympathy for middle eastern states and arabs except ''unlovely'' Israel. On the other hand, even i do think that these bombings have gone too far. Just a little friendly advice from me, It is insane to try killing a fly with a hammer.

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    1. All true. How the Kurds your side of the border doing these days? And let us not forget this shall we?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

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    2. Hello Steve, Kurds by our side of the border thank you for your interest. They are calm and happy nowadays. Not a single soldier or kurdish worker's party member died in last 6 months. Goverment officials keep negotiating and the kurdish party in parliament nominated one of his guys as a candidate for presidential election. Things seem stable for now and improving.

      I support the efforts of Armenians, we should face our past. i wont count corpses of the dead people and hurt their feeling but armenians should see the other side of the coin. They attacked logistic centers of the Turkish imperial army and killed appx 200 000 turks and kurds behind the defence lines. You know the result, ''en masse exodus''. Enver Pasa and His general staff moved them to Middle East.

      Regards

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    3. Sustainable becomes moot when it's screamed from the roof tops, kill every Jew. Against a wall with blood thirsty animals coming for you, your women and children even your dead in cemetaries makes anything sustainable.
      Once it becomes unsustainable then the Nuclear weapons come out.
      Question is, do the people in Gaza, Iran, Egypt, and Muslim's everywhere feel Hamas will fight to the very last drop of Palestinian blood to achieve their aims even if it leads to an atomic riposte?
      Sustainable only if your other course of action is to stand still and let your self be struck at the neck.

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  9. Both Channel 1 and the Times of Israel are sticking by their guns that this transcript is 100% legitimate, received from a senior US official (who clearly thinks HopeyDopey was out of line as well).

    And Israel manifestly doesn't need to pick negotiators, they're swatting this fly with a fly swatter, not a hammer, and doing just fine without anyone else's "help", least of all Obama's.

    The correct response is to leave them be, and wait for HAMAS to either die in place, or ask for quarter, and then decide whether or not an international terrorist organization deserves a second chance.

    Personally, I give the idea two thumbs down.

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