The job is hard.
Quite honestly, in this video these guys violated officer safety because they waited TOO long to fire.
21 feet.
A suspect can close the distance between in a micro second (not literally but before you can unholster).
What is the difference between the Ferguson riot response and this one?
The way the dept handled information to the public. The PD's need to get the info out as soon as possible. Release as much info as possible as fast as possible.
In other words they need to be above board. If PD's are honest and explain that they're dealing with the insane, evil and stupid then the public will understand.
St Louis PD understood this. Ferguson PD did not.
SIDENOTE: The idiots that are talking about using a Taser against a knife are smoking crack, know nothing about the application of force and need to stay in their lanes. NEVER bring less than lethal to a deadly encounter. Intentions were made clear before he said a word. He clutched a knife. I'm calling it. This is a JUSTIFIED shooting. No one can say otherwise.
God, the comments on that video.... It's stuff like that and this http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/08/foghorn/student-arrested-suspended-writing-fictional-story-gun/ that gives me so little hope for our countries future. :/
ReplyDeletei didn't even bother to read the comments. idiots one and all. why give myself headaches trying to understand fools?
DeleteIs this the "suicide by cop" from another post or another one?
ReplyDeleteLet me see if I got this.
Dude steal two soda cans, then put them on the ground, when the police arrives he yells to be shot and then the police officers kill him. Is that it?
yes this is suicide by cop reference. but you left out an important point. he had a knife in his hand, when ordered to drop it did not and then approached LEO's in a threatening (at least from my reference point) manner.
Deletehe didn't have to say a word. his actions screamed that he was going to kill or be killed. quite honestly if i was chief i'd probably put the officers on suspension for taking too long to shoot as an example to my other officers to never hesitate when it comes to dealing with the insane or evil. but considering the shit going down in Ferguson a bit of delay is understandable.
oh and cuffing is totally appropriate. PD can't clean up their battlefield the way that Marines were once taught to!
From a friend in the LAPD, they are taught to always cuff the suspect, even when it is more than likely they are dead. Its part of the precautionary procedures that they are taught. AKA, they cannot pronounce death and must always treat a suspect as living procedurally.
DeleteWhen you told me that this is a everyday thing over there, i thought, " 10 cases per month" but apparently this really a everyday case. This is so fucked up
DeleteHey sol watch the shooting in Alaska with the guy swing a baseball bat. I watched it and first thing I thought was these guys are scared to shoot. They run from the guy, one officer falls, and bad guy I believe hits the officer a few times before his partner shoots him 1 time. Thankfully the actor backs up, because I think the officer froze and wondered why the bad guy didn't fly back. I can't say for certain what happened after they ran from him, because my blood pressure shot up so quick.
Deletei've searched for that vid but can't find it. is it available online, i'd love to post it!
DeleteSol here you go. sorry my iphone hates posting on here.
Deletehttp://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/7477933-Video-Alaska-police-shoot-man-attacking-with-bat/
One guy with large knife, one dead cop and a handful of wounded cops.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75RTkGbiJpk
the idea that a knife-wielding suspect should be 'disarmed' or 'tased' is stupid.
i'm not surprised. tragic, but i'm not surprised.
DeleteGood analysis Sol.
ReplyDeletethanks Eric. just a bit of common sense. i refuse to be dazzled by bullshit or political correctness.
DeleteIn the Netherlands, where I live, cops are instructed to shoot at the legs first in such a particular event (slow moving target, knife, no gun). Wouldn't that be enough force applied to stop this threat? Is it standard procedure to target lethal parts like the chest and head in the US?
ReplyDeletewell in the US with a population of 350 million people....the equivalent of over half of Europe, we have developed a very litigous society. police are taught to stop the attack. if police shoot an assailant in the legs and he lungs and injures, much less kills a bystander the law suits are gonna fly. teach them to shoot legs and they injury the officer law suits are gonna fly.
Deletefor better or worse this country is great but its filled with the insane and evil too. better to put down those that would harm others than perform herculean acts that end up endangering others.
Policemans in france are equipped with telescopic staff, lacrymogen spray, tazer, gun and sometimes tonfa.
ReplyDeleteThat let them many possibilities to act non lethaly !
They are trained to kravmaga-like technics.
Bu yes, in our country, you will hardly get money from being shot by police, if you're guilty.
you're joking right? France might have led the way in the development of modern police forces but since then the US has been leading the way. our police are equally equipped and i dare say that we led the development of many of the tools that you listed.
Deleteoh and krav mega is nothing scary. it all depends on the skill of the user and their fitness level. i seen too many practitioners of various various martial arts get their asses handed to them by simple wrestling techniques.
True for close combat, but they push the skill high, to avoid the use of weapon.
DeleteI agree, Us police lead the way in tool developping. But it's his way of making thing that is the problem.
In your country, everybody could have a glock 19 or AR15 so, I can understand their procedure.
In my point of view, the problem is that their procedure are the same with a knife, a gun, an assault rifle or an RPG7.
When I recently made a VIGIPIRATE mission in Paris ( military patrol on large public area), We are repeated everyday that force sould be used with proportionnality and discretion.
Our police main credo is to avoid using lethal force. At each use of weapon, an investigation on this usage is launched.
But I can't expect things change in your country : US society is way more violent than ours.
are you trying to piss me off? first, we have the freedom to possess weapons that your people cannot. i consider that a deficit on your country's part. second, the use of force as demonstrated in Ferguson is not only investigated, but if used incorrectly you can expect to be put underneath the jail if you're a cop. third, our police not only develop weapons, and tactics but also "credo". they don't use force in a random way. you're almost saying that the cops should have used a taser or some stupid judo move when facing a guy with a knife. if that's how you guys operate then you're crazier than i thought.
Deletelast lets talk about violence. my chances of getting mugged in Paris are MUCH higher than in New York. additionally i've read the reports. alot of your crime is not reported because the immigrant sections aren't policed and aren't reported.
you guys are full of shit. your country is falling apart, you're being invaded from the Middle East and Africa and yet you have the audacity to try and come to my blog and talk shit about America.
as an outsider you better be respectful and careful.
We are a country polluted by much summary offense ( not sure of traduction : like pickpocket, fraud), not crime ( murder, bank robbery ).
DeleteThere is facts : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Your homicide rate ( proportionnal to population) is five time ours.
The second amendment does not really matters, because canada hase less than a third of US homicide rate.
This numbers don't consider your proximity with Mexico, that I suspect to grow these statistics.
I'm not trying to insult or scorn you and your country.
I am here to discuss and sometimes expose my point of view, but, to hear and understand yours too.
You have perhaps much chance getting robbed in Paris, but absolutly no chance to be seriously injured or kill, without searching it.
A lot of summary offense are not reported but crime is always : you can't hide injured people, mainly because warrants need lawsuit acts.
Our country is full of immigrant ( african and north african), yes, but most of them are non violent. Street violence are more the fact of french people : it's the failure of our society.
I would prefer to have your second amendment, in France, with an heavy gun control.
I will prefer that our police hesitate less to fire on criminal , like in cyour country.
But it does not prevent me from having a moderate opinion. I believe some thing are nevertheless better in my country.
In this debate, I think that this fact show me a lack of proportionnality. Not even all your police procedure but this act.
Yes, in my country, and I speak as military that made security missions in Paris, and same for police : Here you will loose at almost all lawsuits if you use your gun when faced a knife. It often happend that policemen loose their job, altough thay could only use their gun. When you work in police, military police ect in france, you can use gun only versus gun.
It cause often problems, it save stupid people, but sometime it save desaperate, alcooholised or drugged people from what you call police suicide.
ok . i read you wrong. just like the Ugly American (we had t-shirts we wore that actually said that with a grinning muscled up bulldog with a Marine cover and an M-16 just beneath for PT gear) is a well known image of Americans so is the Arrogant French.
Deletelike i said. i read you wrong.
You know it is hard enough to get officers to have good officer safety and do the right thing to make it home. It takes a ton of training to get 1 human to shoot another even in self defense. My biggest fear is that all the backlash local law enforcement has been getting the last 2 years officers will fail to act in a deadly force situation and get them selves or an innocent injured or killed.
DeleteWhat was the guy thinking while he went with a knife in his heands to armed cops?
ReplyDelete*hands
Deleteprobably either....life was fun but time to end the ride or ... watch this shit....
DeleteYeah, or simpler look at me I'm a brave badass with a knife.
DeleteI didn't see any knife but that is still no reason for the police too shot someone, the fact is that being a policemen is a relatively dangerous job, especially when they brazenly put themselves in 'harms way' by approaching a dangerous person with the full intention of using that as an excuse to publicly execute that person. A person which they aggravate/provoke first by pointing a gun and shouting.
ReplyDeleteBut that is no excuse, and there are far better ways they could handle these types of situations, for instance not putting themselves in the situation, i.e. aproaching a man with a knife and then using that knife as an excuse to kill him. Instead they could have tazed him from a distance, or set-dogs on him, or tazed him from the car, or used some other form of non-lethal weapon, although why they would to assault this man is beyond me, but I suppose it is an improvement from murder.
SOL the policemen don't work for the people, nor are they special in anyway shape or form, assault is assault, and murder is murder, it would still be equally stupid for a private civilian to walk up to someone with a knife, and then shoot him soley using the excuse that he had a knife. There is a BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN STANDING YOUR GROUND and GOING FOR A FIGHT. And by all rights under stand your ground that guy could have pulled a gun and blown that policemens head off, he was threatening him with a gun.
you are so wrong that it hurts. Jacobite.NZ. sorry buddy, but if you don't understand how quickly a person can cross 21 feet (the standard) and effectively kill someone with a knife then i recommend you do a bit of research, increase your training tremendously and understand why i walk around in public in a condition Yellow state.
Deleteonce you become aware of the threats and the dangers, the world becomes a much different place. consider this conversation your wakeup. REALITY IS CALLING!
You know don't get me wrong, I am all for self-defence, for stand your ground, but walking up to some Street Punk with a knife, yelling and shouting and pointing your gun at him, and using the excuse that he 'had a knife' (which isn't illegal by the way) to blow his brains out is not self-defence, not at all, not in the slightest!
ReplyDeleteThe police-force should not be above the law, they should not be judge, jurry and executioner, this is not judge dredd!
I knew you'd say that - Judge Dredd :D
DeleteJacobite.nz..... This is your typical 5150 suicide by cop. This dipshit started it. This dipshit provoked the situation. This dipshit charged the officers in an aggressive manner... They failed to act fast enough. I would have shot to kill. In looking at that video a few times, I agree with Sol. They waited too long. As an officer, you wanna do your job and go home at the end of your shift. That's all. You protect your partner, and any citizens near or around any situation.
ReplyDelete