We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."
President Barack Obama.
Check this out from TheState.com
COLUMBIA, SC — Richland County sheriff’s deputies on Monday and Tuesday will conduct a secretive joint exercise around the county with unidentified units from Ft. Bragg, according to the sheriff’s department.And these types of exercises just don't happen near military bases but all over the country. These law enforcement officials just aren't working with conventional units...most of the time they're exercising with SOCOM.
The exercises will run up to midnight both days and be primarily in Lower Richland, around Eastover and Hopkins.
Exercises will also conducted around the Screaming Eagle Road near Elgin and North Richland County near outbound Monticello Road.
Ft. Bragg is home to some of the U.S. Army’s elite fighting groups, including Special Forces, aviation support and airborne units. The Army’s Delta Force is also at Ft. Bragg.
A sheriff’s department spokesman Sunday declined to say which Ft. Bragg units will be involved. Reporters will not be allowed to “view or participate” in the exercise.
It will be noisy at times.
“Citizens may see military and departmental vehicles traveling in and around rural and metropolitan areas and may hear ordnance being set off or fired which will be simulated/ blanks and controlled by trained personnel,” a sheriff’s department press release said. .
The release said that, “Due to Sheriff Leon Lott's longstanding commitment to making sure that deputies are trained and prepared for every event and potential threat and his desire to assist the military to ensure their preparations;” the joint exercise is being held.
You want to know the real cause of militarization of police in the US? Point your finger at SOCOM, the Pentagon and the White House.
An anti-terrorism exercise would be easily explained away and understood by the population....but instead they refuse to disclose the reasoning behind them.
Equipment means squat. Training gives attitude, mindset and if conducted properly can even alter or "shape" beliefs.
You want to know why PDs are acting as if they're at war with citizens? Its because that's what they're learning while sitting at the feet of Special Operations.
Note: The following links are just a few from the first page when Google-ing "military exercises in US cities 2013"....there are many more examples...
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/04/27/tinl-a27.html
http://www.nola.com/military/index.ssf/2013/05/us_special_forces_behind_last.html
http://www.infowars.com/phoenix-residents-freak-out-over-dod-military-exercises/
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/28/military-conducts-another-massive-training-drill-involving-helicopters-this-time-in-texas/
http://www.examiner.com/article/domestic-military-exercises-meant-to-desensitize-americans-to-military
Solomon, Did you see this Video ?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/verify_controversy?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3Dj-P54MZVxMU
I see unacceptable usage of gun by police...
I see improper escalation of force. However, I think the officers are justified in acting with force.
DeleteFrom verbal commands directly to lethal force?
They could have at least tried to put some distance between them, while one officer switches weapons and attempts to taze the other can cover him should the guy make a fast break. If that failed, then shoot him, but not 13 times... with around 5 shots after the target has fallen...
Looks like the guy was walking around their position, towards that parked vehicle, not towards them. He didn't charge them either, his hands were down and not raised. The police reported he was 3 or 4 feet away when they shot...hardly. Judging by the sidewalk cracks and light pole, I would but him closer to 10 feet prior to him rolling down that sloped driveway. I've heard unconfirmed reports that this "knife" was around 3.5 inches... hardly a K-Bar...but still.
Hindsight is 20/20 though, I can understand the officers thoughts and decisions "in the moment", however they are held to a higher standard in our society as protectors of the public. Part of their responsibility is being able to handle situations as peacefully as possible. That's why they are officers.
This reminds me of the homeless guy shot in the back by police in the hills not to long ago. It was the same deal, he had knives and took a few steps forward. Sol, had a post about that and some of the points he made there apply here. Talk about bad timing...
Occultus the 2 incidences are completely different. The one in New Mexico did not have a full release of info by those seeking to say they just killed the guy. They were there for hours with a negotiator and mental health officer trying to talk the guy down. The short scene that was shown on video released was one of many times he seemed to comply, but would then turn and get highly agitated again. That time they tried to make a move that failed and the shooting was a result of the failed action. I cant find the article that had a list of officers who responded and the radio traffic, but it lasted hours where this lasted seconds.
DeleteWe actually had a discussion at work about this one and as far as court rulings go its a justified shoot. I dont know if you have ever used a taser before, but I have numerous times. Out of 20 or more cartridges fired It has worked to real effect 2 times. I would not pull one out in the situation presented due to me not having faith that it would work. Police are trained to deploy a taser in that fashion, but most of the time its a SRT team that uses it against an armed threat with 2 guys with guns and shields in front of the guy holding the taser, but its not good to shoot a taser at a guy holding a knife if you shoot him up front. Most of the time the arms draw in and they fall stabbing themselves. Now a shot to the back is great, because their arms open up when struck. Tasers are great for someone with no weapons and wanting to fight. The likely hood of actor or officer getting injured is very low.
I can't find any reason to a police department train with military special forces.
ReplyDeleteKashmir, Indian Maoists and Naxals, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Georgia, Israel.....or for that matter any place where fighting escalates very fast requiring all Govt. institutions Police and Military to be at 100% at all times.
DeleteI am beginning to despair. At my most optimistic I hope this militarisation of police forces is at nexus of fashion for operator style equipment and a product of the compensation culture. At my most pessimistic I fear they no something we don't.
ReplyDeleteSteve most of whats being called militarization is actually the police just upgrading over the years. Lets take a look at SWAT officers or SRT teams which everyone posts pictures of. These officers may work patrol sometime, but they do not answer calls in full gear. They preform barricaded subject calls, hostage rescue, and warrant searches in their full gear. Basically they have the extra gear to go into a higher threat environment. Yes, many have upgraded from MP-5s to a short barreled AR type rifle, which cost an ungodly amount less than an mp-5. Yes, they have gone from lvl 3a armor to lvl 4, but thats about the extent of the upgrades. The big thing is you see them more now, because the stuff they do gets more people watching when the news comes on. Now patrol guys would love to be able to use some of the gear these guys get. 1 better ergonomics better weight distribution which helps our backs not get all jacked up. Most duty belts weigh 12lbs or more. To get a thigh rig and a vest carrier that can hold a few items would be great. Since the LA bank robbery 2 things came out of that. ?The push to get patrol carbines back out and after the lawsuit from the family of one of the actors that police did not preform medical care on scene departments are further pushing out medical gear and some minor medical training.
DeleteBottom line whatever the worst thing that can happen proper departments try to train and gear for. If we see a number of officers or just shooting actors using rifles over handguns there will be a push to go to hard body armor because if the trend is there or the intel says it may keep happening officers families can sue the city or county and win if an officer was killed and it was due to poor equipment and or training.
Yes. When I was a child police here walked around in blue heavy serge uniforms with collars and ties and boots as highly polished as any in the Household Division, helmets, and they still carried whistles. Now it is all black combat trouser and tees with stab vests.
DeleteAs I said one of the drivers for this compensation culture. Where police handled all situations in the basic uniform now the more hazardous situations are approached with quite rightly an eye to mitigating risk hence the "operator" look. Police departments don't want to get sued for not doing all they can to protect their men in field. Pushed budgets mean this equipment will be for most centrally held and issued as needed. As you say there has been a general upgrading, all I question is whether the upgrading is just to progress or are there others drivers. Nothing happens in a vacuum as we all know most things in life happen for a variety of reasons hardly ever just one. Similar can be said about the MRAPs. The MRAPs aren't for armed patrols. They are just handy bullet proof barricades that move.
As for the issuing of carbines well for a long time I have wondered whether in the name of safety whether US departments would be better issuing pistol calibre carbines instead of handguns. Handguns skills degrade quickly rifle skills not so quickly. It strikes me as odd that departments are happy for officers to carry a full rifle calibre carbine in the trunk that will be rarely accessed never mind fired, lets not factor in training, while their day to day weapon, lets not factor training again, will be drawn with greater frequency though the training will be insufficient to be safe especially in proximity to the public. Politically it may be a step too far for some but a pistol calibre carbine even though it looks like a rifle would mean the public would be far better safer and officers would be more in control of the situation; easier to take that difficult shot, and they are all difficult in those situation, with a "rifle" than a handgun.
Lastly I do think fashion drives some of this stuff. Fashion isn't a word that applies to cloths. There are fashionable ideas in science, tech, films, art, etc. all human spheres, If department A sees department B getting some equipment today after department C got it last week department A will ask if it needs it too. That need may be genuine, But I would say only partially so. I think department A will want the equipment just because others have it and will justify its purchase with reasons after and not before the decision to acquire is made.
HAHAHA everyone wants the same "toys". I'm with you on the pistol caliber carbine, but the problem is to have a short barreled sub gun able to be holstered and ready, but not strapped across the chest as to seem overtly aggressive. That way its easy to carry, but the public doesn't throw a fit. You have to remember that since we are no longer a gun culture people believe shooting someone with a .45 will throw them across a room and that one shot to a non-vital area will stop almost every attack. Then you have the tax stamp issue and every officer having to carry the paperwork with them.
DeleteIt scares the sh** out of me when I see someone pass our qualification with an 88 or so and the target looks like a blind man shot it with a shotgun, but not enough go to the range and keep their skills up let alone get training outside of basic academy training. I wonder how the old heads would respond if it was proposed that if you cant pass with a 90 or above you get docked pay for a week while going through a remedial school
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/36.jpeg :)
DeleteWell below the MP5 sized weapons and above service pistols there is a gap to be filled. There has been more than one pistol-with-a-stock system sold over the years. I am thinking of the officer having the weapon supported at three points (shoulder, grip, forward) and further a slightly larger weapon perhaps would allow the use of better sights be it the venerable ghost ring or mini-red dot. Anything that means officers aren't waving guns about because they aren't used to the weight.
As to my other points I just think there is more to this than the US becoming a police state. They have had the means to yank a citizen of the street for years if they wanted him.
http://shootingfix.com.au/forum/download/file.php?id=395
DeleteIS THAT YOUR RIFLE????? lovely!
DeleteSpeak of the devil
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiQ2-nCLE4Y
160th Aviation Regiment has been conducting nighttime training in the Minneapolis/St.Paul area. I live near the airport and they operate from there. They Blackhawks and Little Birds flying around from 9pm onwards into almost zero hour.
As for why, there are many scenarios where Special Operations and Local Swat teams would want to train together: terrorists,
Solomon,
ReplyDeleteNow an attempt to ban civilians from buying body armor. H.R. 5344.
Sources:
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Rep-Mike-Honda-Introduces-Bill-Banning-Civilians-from-Buying-Body-Armor-270223431.html
https://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/5344
Petition to stop:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/stop-hr-5344-banning-responsible-law-abiding-citizens-owning-body-armor/GNrBKFrF
i saw that but the reality is stark for politicians. hillbilly armor already is being made by many. i know a guy that refused to buy SAPI plates and instead just got steel plates, worked them in his shop and i'll be honest they look good and a test fire revealed that he'll have to worry about spalling if he's hit but they do stop 308 rounds.
Deletethe powers that be are scared...but thanks for the petition. i'll sign it but don't give it much hope. i'll call my Congress Critter instead.
I don't think there is one prime mover behind militarization of LE.
ReplyDeleteOur society has spent over a decade in two major wars. Many of the soldiers were guardsmen and reservists. Now that there are so many vets back in civvie life, they bring those experiences and training back to their lives. And many First Responders are former military or current reservists.
Look at the popularity of ARs and tactical gear. Twenty years ago, Evil Black Rifles were rare. Now there are millions out there and hundreds of thousands sold each year along with polymer hi-cap pistols .And our popular culture, Walking dead, Doomsday Preppers, LE programs, etc. is militarized as well.
Also, consider the distances for FBI HRT, US Marshal SOG and Delta. They are located on the Eastern US. Who responds to something in Minneapolis or Denver?
I've read posts here where the skills of LE SWAT are dissed on. So, if a Mumbai-type attack occurs, who is going to respond first? Local LE SWAT backed up by closest FBI and DHS SWAT.
I am a firm supporter of community policing, disfavor the militarization of LE, but there has to be some sort of crunchy, hard center within Local LE to be able to respond and contain a Mumbai attack that is seldom used or seen by the public.