tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post3379152620662688350..comments2023-11-03T04:00:20.994-05:00Comments on SNAFU!: The Naval Strike Aircraft Conundrum. A Proceedings Article.Solomonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05980277484445749796noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-14428128491113176932013-07-24T22:06:01.229-05:002013-07-24T22:06:01.229-05:00Solomon, I sincerely hope the USMC finds a way out...Solomon, I sincerely hope the USMC finds a way out of it. I think they could benefit from replacing their F-35C orders with Super Hornets and their F-35B orders with F-35A's. That way they could use both and not lose any capability.<br /><br />You're probably going to hate me when I say this, but I was completely against the F-35 when it failed to catch wires the first time. When it turned out to be a total flop I was one of those Navy guys that was laughing at the USAF, USMC, and allies. My laughing stopped when I realized that it was going to consume the budgets of all our cooperative services and hamper our ability to provide many other capabilities we need. I thought sequestration would kill the F-35, but congress took away other valuable programs and veterans benefits with it instead. I really don't see anyway out of the F-35 program unless all of our allies pull out of it together or some divine act of God happens.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170735387780266338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-8417371494803501362013-07-24T21:55:32.917-05:002013-07-24T21:55:32.917-05:00Lockheed Martin is under so much pressure to drive...Lockheed Martin is under so much pressure to drive down the price it ain't funny. they see the writing on the wall. even this might not save the project. lets be honest here. and some aren't gonna like it but i'm just being honest. we were told that we'd get a price substantially lower than that.<br /><br />if they had kept there promises i'd be looking at shiny new MPCs and ACVs sitting in Marine Corps ramps. instead the reality is stark.<br /><br />sequestration is coming. the Republicans no longer give a damn, the Democrats hate the military and the services have turned off their normal support among veterans.<br /><br />they made their bed, they made the choices and i don't feel sorry for them one bit. this Pentagon is just one big legacy of failure. a total lack of moral courage and they're all just a bunch of ass kissing bureaucrats. the whole lot of the them can suck on .45's for all i care.<br /><br />the F-35 program will be cut this fall because the Congress will NOT repeal sequestration. that's a fact. so this big decrease in price is just a tease. it means nothing. the reality is that the death spiral is here.Solomonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05980277484445749796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-78430028835465548972013-07-24T21:53:16.005-05:002013-07-24T21:53:16.005-05:00You've got to be kidding me. The figures that ...You've got to be kidding me. The figures that are offered on the Super Hornet Block III indicate it will be around $90 million dollars per unit, which is still half that of the F-35C. Aside from that, comparing the costs to upgrade the Super Hornet to making an actual combat ready F-35 and you'll realize that the Super Hornet is still a bargain anyway. The problems with the F-35C are inexcusable and expensive to fix.<br /><br />On top of that he never mentioned that the USN should upgrade all of the Super Hornet Block IIs to the Block III. The USN could simply upgrade a portion of them. Added capability at a cheap price without losing the basics already in play. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170735387780266338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-88038682188382159212013-07-24T21:48:25.994-05:002013-07-24T21:48:25.994-05:00Lockheed Martin and the USAF closed the deal for t...Lockheed Martin and the USAF closed the deal for the fifth batch of F-35A's at $107 million. Whether they gave the USAF a special discount or not is unknown, but we do have the records saying that the USAF was able to buy F-35A's in 2012 for $107 million a piece.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170735387780266338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-69113764937783884542013-07-24T20:46:04.870-05:002013-07-24T20:46:04.870-05:00http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-98VMe1kIic4/UWcg52kHGnI/...http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-98VMe1kIic4/UWcg52kHGnI/AAAAAAAAC-o/wEDqCo5xyew/s1600/USAF-F-35_2014budget.JPGSuperrhinoceronthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11820529901156308950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-78097048696379341292013-07-24T18:30:38.528-05:002013-07-24T18:30:38.528-05:00Block II hornets are 67 million. A Block III Horne...Block II hornets are 67 million. A Block III Hornet will take 3 billion in development, Boeing has already spent 500 million on its own. The engines alone will take 1 billion dollars to develop. (note, they are not developed)<br /><br />There is a huge difference between a powerpoint presentation and a mock up. The R&D and procurement cost, that is then applied to a very small number of Super Hornets is going to make them more expensive than a full production F-35 of any variant, and it won't be as capable. The more bells and whistles that are on there, the more it costs. And a Block III will have a CFTs, Pods, IRST, new engines, HMQS, etc. <br /><br />ThAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-46115834541652794302013-07-24T18:29:16.333-05:002013-07-24T18:29:16.333-05:00Dont horry Solomon...they are all liers and stupid...Dont horry Solomon...they are all liers and stupid people...<br />From wikipedia«Unit cost has been estimated by Boeing at approximately US$100 million, including spares and support»-So those more or less 100 million INCLUDE SPARES AND SUPORT...<br />There is a lobby to kill the F-15 Se ...also from wiki «Diplomatic Sources reported that on 6 July 2010, in a face to face meeting Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu asked U.S. President Obama to expedite the export of the "stealth F-15E" but received no reply.[21]»<br />As for the JSF«In February 2011, the Pentagon put a price of $207.6 million on each of the 32 aircraft to be acquired in FY2012, rising to $304.15 million ($9,732.8/32) if its share of RDT&E spending is included.[45][46]»<br />As for the price of the F-15K remmenber people...it was half build in the USA with lot of compoments built and assembled in Korea...that why they were so expensiveAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10433559321704976627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-26459706505250667722013-07-24T15:49:17.198-05:002013-07-24T15:49:17.198-05:00If the USNavy will buy some F-35 to save the progr...If the USNavy will buy some F-35 to save the program any way, better to buy some F-35B. It will be use by the USMarines, British and problably Italians, Koreans, Japanese, etc. In the meantime untill the F-35B become fully operational one day, they should built more Ultra Hornets and X-47B to do the same job.<br />Superrhinoceronthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11820529901156308950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-78022186441101785802013-07-24T15:44:20.749-05:002013-07-24T15:44:20.749-05:00i like the money saving aspect of it if he's r...i like the money saving aspect of it if he's right. i'm intrigued by the idea that the SUper Hornet with conformal fuel tanks approached the carriage of fuel by the F-35 and i like the thought that almost everything we'd get out of the F-35C can be bought with MUCH less money by switching to the SUper Hornet.<br /><br />my thing is that even if he's actually spot on about the State Dept involvement then there is no off ramp.<br /><br />the other allies that are to buy the F-35B are being subsidized by the Marine Corps and we can't get out of it because it would cause foreign buyers prices to rise.<br /><br />we're stuck in a terrible spot and i don't know how to get out of it. the most annoying part of all of this is that the Marine Corps propaganda machine was fully utilized to save the F-35 but put on the shelf for Marine specific progams like the EFV, ACV, MPC and even the AAV upgrade. we're getting raped by a program we pushed for. the irony isn't lost on me.Solomonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05980277484445749796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-30418100843828790522013-07-24T15:38:53.435-05:002013-07-24T15:38:53.435-05:00I have no problem if you want to mention that I bo...I have no problem if you want to mention that I bought it to you. (That is if my link was the one you read anyway.) I personally think the guy that wrote this is completely right and I think his plan would save the Navy a lot of money.<br /><br />I would also like to know what you think of the idea of the Marine Corps taking his idea as well and simply replacing all their F-35B orders with F-35As.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01170735387780266338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-21318157828944471432013-07-24T13:14:10.807-05:002013-07-24T13:14:10.807-05:00"back peddle you attempted is bullshit."... "back peddle you attempted is bullshit."<br /><br />huh?<br /><br />HTHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-43099097424267618352013-07-24T12:53:24.633-05:002013-07-24T12:53:24.633-05:00negative dumbass. take all the shots you want at ...negative dumbass. take all the shots you want at me. that's cool and i kind of like the drama. but to attack the author of this article is out of bounds. don't do that and you can stay in the dark for all i care. oh and you're right i am a grown up. the difference is when you try and punch i'll punch back. so climb down off your civility horse, you're a sanctimonious, pompous, arrogant, ill mannered son of a bitch ----and the back peddle you attempted is bullshit.Solomonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05980277484445749796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-59637832091679629842013-07-24T12:48:09.573-05:002013-07-24T12:48:09.573-05:00LOL you are such a grown up Sol. If you want I wil...LOL you are such a grown up Sol. If you want I will start using a signature so you will know its me everytime, but I don't do face book or Gmail accounts<br /><br />@steven: An F-15K was $105 million just a couple years ago. There is no prodcution F-15SE to compare to, not even an LRIP. But suffice to say that an F-15SE with all the promises is going to be plenty expensive. Canada put the cost of a production F-35A at 88 million. <br /><br />-HTHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-34978605253575743452013-07-24T12:42:40.435-05:002013-07-24T12:42:40.435-05:00He hits all the "stupid points" Compares...He hits all the "stupid points" Compares LRIP cost to current F-18 cost, completely ignores the cost to upgrade to block III standard. and ignores the increased cost that Block III Hornets will accrue. People in the know have set the cost of a Block III Super at $100 million +Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-8571134603913742762013-07-24T12:36:46.727-05:002013-07-24T12:36:46.727-05:00@SpudmanWP why on earth would a Silent Eagle cost ...@SpudmanWP why on earth would a Silent Eagle cost as much as F-35A?? Not saying you're wrong, but that doesn't make sense to me.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828078358470043245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-32071985299702165182013-07-24T12:33:21.243-05:002013-07-24T12:33:21.243-05:00the guy stepped into the arena, put forward valid ...the guy stepped into the arena, put forward valid points and all you can do is call him a stupid butter bar?<br /><br />FUCK YOU. EAT SHIT YOU SON OF A BITCH.<br /><br />grow a pair like he did, step out from behind the 'anonymous' label and tell us how you feel and what you think. otherwise spend the rest of the day digging sand out of your clit and tell mommy i was mean to you.Solomonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05980277484445749796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-64176949147989519942013-07-24T12:30:28.165-05:002013-07-24T12:30:28.165-05:00Why would he mention the Silent Eagle at all? &quo...Why would he mention the Silent Eagle at all? "Boeing also has the Strike Eagle..." Which has never been built as a ground up aircraft even in prototype form and is vaporware. They have built a mock up and some CFTs for testing. thats it. He is either ignorant or trying to mislead. If the Silent Eagle is a demonstration of Boeing Prowess the F-35 must be even better as they have already built 60+ <br /><br />I wrote better papers in high school.<br /><br />Stupid butter bar is stupid. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-55350076532192352172013-07-24T12:16:32.183-05:002013-07-24T12:16:32.183-05:00Yeah, I guess I did, I was just going off what was...Yeah, I guess I did, I was just going off what was said in the article posted.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828078358470043245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-41303548679997952982013-07-24T11:30:27.558-05:002013-07-24T11:30:27.558-05:00You must have missed the part about the F-15SE (sa...You must have missed the part about the F-15SE (sans the canted tails) costing nearly as much as the F-35A during the bidding and that ALL THREE bidders were over the price cap. <br /><br />The whole “costs a fraction of” only works if the fraction is 9/10ths.<br />SpudmanWPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13808856347047254385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-80335322763669101982013-07-24T10:07:01.950-05:002013-07-24T10:07:01.950-05:00Boeing put the Silent Eagle up for grabs in a coup...Boeing put the Silent Eagle up for grabs in a couple of international competitions. S. Korea was one I think. It boggled my mind then why they didn't take it. It feels like they're hiding something here. If you can get an updated F-15 or F-18 with 75-90% of the F-35s features for a fraction of the cost why would you not take it???Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828078358470043245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-82068705810763829582013-07-24T09:53:53.542-05:002013-07-24T09:53:53.542-05:00Instead of wasting money to buy a C variant (or ch...Instead of wasting money to buy a C variant (or changing the carrier deck), you get a Super Hornet and the Air Force gets a free A model essentially... In 30-40 years the stealth advantage of the JSF will have been surpassed making it just as useless. Why not buy more SH's now, which are needed, and bank on UCASS which is the future anyways?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-41613009753104753592013-07-24T09:29:30.106-05:002013-07-24T09:29:30.106-05:00Yep, know all about Proceedings. Been reading it ...Yep, know all about Proceedings. Been reading it for nearly 30 years. It has some great stuff, some utterly retarded bullshit, and everything in between. Overall, I like it. FelixA9https://www.blogger.com/profile/02581684519887398105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-13184862902371479632013-07-24T08:47:59.700-05:002013-07-24T08:47:59.700-05:00Proceedings is one of the Navy mags that fosters d...Proceedings is one of the Navy mags that fosters discussion. even discussion that goes against the leadership. for rabid individuals it will seem either a God send or stupid beyond reason. the middle is where the battle is being fought and the cost issue is helping the F-35 lose that battle.Solomonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05980277484445749796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-64250592431599021162013-07-24T08:43:04.504-05:002013-07-24T08:43:04.504-05:00Also, how is buying aircraft you can't even us...Also, how is buying aircraft you can't even use (F-35As) cost effective? It boggles my mind that an article such as this could be written, let alone taken seriously by anybody.FelixA9https://www.blogger.com/profile/02581684519887398105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3098674444128189886.post-83304024422620586342013-07-24T08:41:26.662-05:002013-07-24T08:41:26.662-05:00The F/A-18 is lacking even today. God help it 30-...The F/A-18 is lacking even today. God help it 30-40 years down the road when the F-35C will still be in service. FelixA9https://www.blogger.com/profile/02581684519887398105noreply@blogger.com